Embedded Files
Section VI presents an important question asked by Subhuti.
"Are there those who will hear but not believe?"
It is not the reversed question which is generally used in translations.
Will there be living beings (in the future) who can obtain a true belief
The correct translation must hinge on the important point that hearing and understanding intellectually is one thing, but allowing the Dharma to enter profoundly at a deeper level than intellect is another.
The real question is then directed at "Who will not believe" which was a question that Buddha may have considered incorrect in it's form, and which may be considered almost pessimistic, but is nonetheless a delicate and correct question.
This resulted in the form of the Buddha's answer which, with a slight rebuke, then considers the future of the Dharma after his death.
It must also be noted that the normal translation of the character 法, fǎ, in this sutra is Dharma, the correct translation is in fact either law, method, way or Buddhistteaching. The translation as "Buddhist Teaching" is more relevant to the sense of the text, although perhaps less colorful.
This is important in as much as the text is speaking of the teachings themselves not Dharma in and of itself.
Since the concept of "Buddhist" could not have been relevant at the legendary time this was allegedly spoken then we must use the term "Dharma teaching".
SECTION VI
须菩提白佛言：“世尊！
颇有众生，得闻如是言说章句，生实信不？”
Subhuti asked Buddha saying: "'World Honoured One !
Are there living beings inclined , gaining thus the hearing (of) the words spoken, chapter and sentence, not giving birth to honest belief ?"
佛告须菩提：“莫作是说。
Buddha told Subhuti: “Do not regard (it) to be as said”
如来灭后,后五百岁,有持戒修福者,
于此章句,能生信心，以此为实，
当知是人不于一佛二佛三四五佛而种善根，
After the Tathagata is extinguished, after five hundred years, there will be persons maintaining Monastic discipline cultivating happiness, from these chapters and phrases, capable to give birth to confidence, thus taking (it) as true, equally being aware, being people not from (just) one buddha, two Buddha, three, four (or) five Buddha, and so cultivating virtuous roots,
已于无量千万佛所 种诸善根，闻是章句，
乃至一念生净信者，须菩提！
如来悉知悉见，是诸众生得如是无量福德。
Then taking out of measureless millions (of) Buddhas that which cultivates all virtuous roots. Chapters and sentences being heard thus arrises a thought giving birth to a completely trusting person, Subhuti ! The Tathagata in all cases knows and sees, seeing (it) to be (that) all living beings gain, having thus immeasurable happiness and virtue.
何以故？是诸众生无复我相,
人相, 众生相、寿者相。
What is the cause? It is (that) all living beings have not returned (to) the appearance of I, the appearance of person, the appearance of a living being and the appearance of a person who lives.
“无法相，亦无非法相。
何以故？是诸众生若心取相，则为着我、人、众生、寿者。
(If they) lacked the appearance of the Way,
(they) also would not insist upon examination of the Dharma teachings.
What is the cause?
(They) are all (in those circumstances) human beings and assume (that) mind takes hold of appearance, following because of (believing) I, person, living being, and a person who lives.
“若取法相，即 着我、人、众生、寿者。
If they take the Buddhist teaching appearance at once (they) come into contact (with) I, person, living being, and a person who lives.
The last three paragraphs mean that if they take the teachings to be real then the illusory I , person, living being and their own sense of living arise also as real, and when that happens they lack the true appearance of the way and do not insist upon even examining the teachings.
This is a clear injunction against intellectual grasping of the teachings.
是故不应取法，不应取非法。
以是义故，如来常说：
‘汝等比丘，知我说法，如筏喻者，法尚应舍，何况非法.’
(That) is the reason (one) should not comply with taking hold of the Dharma Teachings, and should not comply with taking hold of the non-Dharma teachings.
Accordingly (this) is the meaning therefore,(when) the Tathagata frequently said:
'And so thou Bhiksu’s, be aware of my expounded Dharma Teaching statements, such as the raft analogy of the person, Dharma teaching should be abandoned let alone incorrect Dharma teachings '
Translated by E.B. Cowell, F. Max Mulller, and J. TakakusuVI.
After this, the venerable Subhûti spoke thus to the Bhagavat: 'Forsooth, O Bhagavat, will there be any beings in the future, in the last time, in the last moment, in the last 500 years , during the timeof the decay of the good Law, who, when these very words of the Sûtras are being preached, will frame a true idea?' The Bhagavat said: 'Do not speak thus, Subhûti. Yes, there will be some beings in the future, in the last time, in the last moment, in the last 500 years, during the decay of the good Law, who will frame a true idea when these very words are being preached.
Translators note: I have changed Pañkâsatî into Pañkasatî, because what is intended here is evidently the last of the periods of 500 years each, which, according to the Mahâyâna-Buddhists, elapsed after the death of Buddha.
'And again, O Subhûti, there will be noble-minded Bodhisattvas, in the future, in the last time, in the last moment, in the last 500 years, during the decay of the good Law, there will be strong and good and wise beings, who, when these very words of the Sûtras are being preached, will frame a true idea.
But those noble-minded Bodhisattvas, O Subhûti, will not have served one Buddha only, and the stockof their merit will not have been accumulated under one Buddha only; on the contrary, O Subhûti, those noble-minded Bodhisattvas will have served many hundred thousands of Buddhas, and the stock of their merit will have been accumulated under many hundred thousands of Buddhas; and they, when these very words of the Sûtras are being preached, will obtain one and the same faith. They are known, O Subhûti, by the Tathâgata through his Buddha-knowledge; they are seen, O Subhûti, by the Tathâgata through his Buddha-eye; they are understood, O Subhûti, by the Tathâgata.
All these, O Subhûti, will produce and will hold fast an immeasurable and innumerable stock of merit. And why? Because, O Subhûti, there does not exist in those noble-minded Bodhisattvas the idea of self, there does not exist the idea of a being, the idea of a living being, the idea of a person. Nor does there exist, O Subhûti, for these noble-minded Bodhisattvas the idea of quality (dharma), nor of no-quality. Neither does there exist, O Subhûti, any idea (samgñâ) or no-idea.
And why? Because, O Subhûti, if there existed for these noble-minded Bodhisattvas the idea of quality, then they would believe in a self, they would believe in a being, they would believe in a living being, they would believe in a person.
And if there existed for them the idea of no-quality, even then they would believe in a self,they would believe in a being, they would believe in a living being, they would believe in a person. And why? Because, O Subhûti, neither quality nor no-quality is to be accepted by a noble-minded Bodhisattva. Therefore this hidden saying has been preached by the Tathâgata: "By those who know the teaching of the Law, as like unto a raft, all qualities indeed must be abandoned; much more no-qualities"'
Translation of Lobsang Chunzin & Michael Roach
Thus did the Conqueror speak. And then the junior monk Subhuti replied
to the Conquering One, as follows:
O Conqueror, what will happen in the future, in the days of
the last five hundred, when the holy Dharma is approaching
its final destruction? How could anyone of those times ever
see accurately the meaning of the explanations given in sutras
such as this one?
.
And the Conqueror replied,
Subhuti, you should never ask the question you have just asked:
"What will happen in the future, in the days of the last five hundred,
when the Dharma is approaching its final destruction? How could
anyone of those times ever see accurately the meaning of the
explanations given in sutras such as this one?"
I say to you, o Subhuti, that in the future, in the days of the last five
hundred, when the holy Dharma is approaching its final destruction,
there will come bodhisattvas who are great beings, who possess
morality, who possess the fine quality, and who possess wisdom.
And these bodhisattvas who are great beings, o Subhuti, will not be ones
who have rendered honor to but a single Buddha, or who have collected
stores of virtue with a single Buddha. Instead, o Subhuti, they will be ones
who have rendered honor to many hundreds of thousands of Buddhas, and
who have collected stores of virtue with many hundreds of thousands of
Buddhas. Such are the bodhisattvas, the great beings, who then will come.
..
Suppose, o Subhuti, that a person reaches even just a single feeling of
faith for the words of a sutra such as this one. The One Thus Gone,
Subhuti, knows any such person. The One Thus Gone, Subhuti, sees
any such person. Such a person, o Subhuti, has produced, and
gathered safely into themselves, a mountain of merit beyond any
calculation.
Why is it so? Because, Subhuti, these bodhisattvas who are great
beings never slip into any conception of something as a self, nor do
they slip into any conception of something as a living being, nor any
conception of something as being alive, nor any conception of
something as a person.
Subhuti, these bodhisattvas who are great beings neither slip
into any conception of things as things, nor do they slip into
any conception of things as not being things. They neither slip
into any conception of a thought as a conception, nor do they
slip into any conception of a thought as not being a
conception.
Why is it so? Because if, Subhuti, these bodhisattvas who are great
beings were to slip into any conception of things as things, then they
would grasp these same things as being a "self"; they would grasp
them as being a living being; they would grasp them as being
something that lives; they would grasp them as a person.
And even if they were to slip into thinking of them as not
being things, that too they would grasp as being a "self"; and
as being a living being; and as being something that lives; and
as being a person.
Why is it so? Because, Subhuti, the bodhisattvas never hold the Dharma in
the wrong way either. Nor do they hold what is not the Dharma. This then
is what the One Thus Gone meant when he said:
Those who understand that this presentation of the Dharma is
like a ship leave even these teachings of Dharma behind.
What need is there to mention then what they do with that
which is not the Dharma?
Translation of Shan jian
Subhuti asked Buddha saying: "'World Honoured One !
Are there living beings inclined , gaining thus the hearing (of) the words spoken, chapter and sentence, not giving birth to honest belief ?"
Buddha told Subhuti: “Do not regard (it) to be as (you have) said”
After the Tathagata is extinguished, after five hundred years, there will be persons maintaining Monastic discipline cultivating happiness, from these chapters and phrases, capable to give birth to confidence, thus taking (it) as true, equally being aware, being people not from (just) one buddha, two Buddha, three, four (or) five Buddha, and so cultivating virtuous roots,
Then taking out of measureless millions (of) Buddhas that which cultivates all virtuous roots. Chapters and sentences being heard thus arrises a thought giving birth to a completely trusting person, Subhuti ! The Tathagata in all cases knows and sees, seeing (it) to be (that) all living beings gain, having thus immeasurable happiness and virtue.
What is the cause? It is (that) all living beings have not returned (to) the appearance of I, the appearance of person, the appearance of a living being and the appearance of a person who lives.
(If they) lacked the appearance of the Way,
(they) also would not insist upon examination of the Dharma teachings.
What is the cause?
(They) are all (in those circumstances) human beings and assume (that) mind takes hold of appearance, following because of (believing) I, person, living being, and a person who lives.
If they take the Buddhist teaching appearance at once (they) come into contact (with) I, person, living being, and a person who lives.
(That) is the reason (one) should not comply with taking hold of the Dharma Teachings, and should not comply with taking hold of the non-Dharma teachings.
Accordingly (this) is the meaning therefore,(when) the Tathagata frequently said:
'And so thou Bhiksu’s, be aware of my expounded Dharma Teaching statements, such as the raft analogy of the person, Dharma teaching should be abandoned let alone incorrect Dharma teachings '
COMMENTARY: in construction
Many translators, perhaps on the base of the religious belief that the great falling way fom the Dhrma is in the last of the five stages of five hundred years, take that last five hundred years as being the specific reference here.
It is a simple question and there is no reason to suppose that what is referred to is not the first five hundred years after Buddha's death, in which Buddha predicted that all the Bhikshus and others will be strong in deliberation in my correct Law. The question refers to all human beings who hear the Dharma teachings not just Bikkhus.
Page updated
Google Sites
Report abuse